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well I'm gonna start a topic about the war
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[EEM]Don_Elmaro
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPEN Your MIND http://electroniciraq.net/news/394.shtml
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{OCA}nix
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Location: Hannover/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isnt it a little bit too simple to take a picture of a wounded child and tell people to open their mind?
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[EEM]Don_Elmaro
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@nixkönner i just wanted to give u another notmassmedia source with eyewitnessreports if u dont want to surf through it and use its your problem.
@all i posted my opinion before there would be more but its not changing anybodys opinion so i wanted to give u chance to make own opinion with two not so common links
Lets talk in some weeks or so cause right now i am pissed off and not trying to post some more links here cause those who are for war dont surf through them and the others i dont know
i keep my mouth shut
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jetweb(AUT)
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Joined: 09 May 2002
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Location: Austria (Vienna)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leicht is auch zu sagen von den amis das sie die klügsten raketen haben. aber wenn ich so seh das unabsichtlich raketen auf ein KRANKENHAUS, bus und wohnblöcke einschalgen wo unschuldige wohnen da kommen bei mir zweifel. aber nicht nur das, eine eigene abwehr-rakete von den amis hat einen eigenen KAMPFJET getroffen. bei so ner mächtigen waffentechnologie darf sowas nicht passiern.


jet

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LeeBe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the link, and other that it lead to.

It seemed to me she said nothing but her own opinions
Quote:
They know that Bush's Administration is interested in oil control and that they have no interest in democracy for these people. Why don't
Americans know this? Why did we elect this man without human feelings, they ask.



You said "those who are for war dont surf through them" but it seems to me theres a lot of evidence in this thread alone to justify stopping saddam.
And lets not forget this wasnt a spur of the moment thing, its been going on for 12 years.
@ those that think its about oil/money I ask you this.
Why didnt they do it all those years ago in the first gulf war? even if they realised later they could/should have, why leave it 12 years??

A bit of info about how he came to power.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1100529.stm
"In 1979, Saddam achieved his ambition of becoming head of state. The new president started as he intended to go on - putting to death dozens of his rivals. "

"In 1980, Saddam thought he saw an opportunity for glory - to put Iraq at the forefront of the Arab world. He ordered a surprise cross-border attack on Iran. This was meant to be a swift operation to capture the Shatt al-Arab waterway leading to the Gulf.

But Iranian resistance was far stronger than he had imagined. Eight years later, with hundreds of thousands of young people killed and the country deep in debt, he agreed on a ceasefire."

These are facts. Available to anyone. Can anyone show me some facts that he 'isnt that bad'?

My mind is already open. And I can see the harm this man can do.

Does anyone here think he is a nice guy and could be trusted??

Can anyone offer an alternative to this war?

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{OCA}nix
Where's Nix?
Where's Nix?


Joined: 17 Apr 2002
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Location: Hannover/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@nixkönner i just wanted to give u another notmassmedia source with eyewitnessreports if u dont want to surf through it and use its your problem


probably it is but look everyone who is against the war
would probably show me such pictures
but also everyone who supports the war
could show me pictures of children
wounded and killed by chemical wepons of iraq army
(kurdish and persian..)
or pictures of killed dissidents or whatever
i just wanted to hint that u cant split ppl into
bad or good like this cuz thats not the fully truth
its not fair
and yes,i would like to see some sources including both sides

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roba
Angelina's Man
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Joined: 14 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Don
No one here is happy from the war. War is always bad. What we say is that there was not any other solution.

I am sure you can find pics of children wounded by hussein-supported suicide terrorists in Israel, or by husseins repressive regime forces...

And BTW that link you posted - IMO it is not objective media source. It is web presenting opinions of some group of ppl. Are they mindreaders?
Quote:
They know that Bush's Administration is interested in oil control and that they have no interest in democracy for these people.

Or do they have some evidence? Or they just publish their >opinions< as facts?
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{OCA}nix
Where's Nix?
Where's Nix?


Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 1299

Location: Hannover/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@ those that think its about oil/money I ask you this.
Why didnt they do it all those years ago in the first gulf war? even if they realised later they could/should have, why leave it 12 years??


hmm,interesting question

whats about this:

iraq citizens are mainly sunits(saddam and his ppl-about 30%)
,kurdish
and shiits about 60%of ppl)
during the first war against saddam and his sunits
we made the shiits join us and fight against saddam
like we now do with kurdish ppl in north of iraq
but when the allied troopes reached bagdad
they suddenly stopped -the war was over
and we left those shiits alone
right after the allied troops left iraq
a lot of shiits and kurdish ppl got killed for helping us
although they asked for help -we didnt helped them
kurdish civilians got killed by saddams chemical weapons
did someone help them ?no,although they asked for help!
the goal of the first war against saddam was to free
kuwait although they caused the war by stealing oil
from iraq !so we may ask wo gets his oil from kuwait?
2.france and russia are against this war but same time
its fact that they are involved in oilbusiness with iraq

so the question is why didnt they finish the job in first war against saddam
who told them to stop?what was the final goal ?
who voted against finishing the job?
did someone sold those shiit and kurdish ppl out
to protect his financial interests?

the turkish state is trying to stop the kurdish ppl in iraq from founding an own kurdish state
cuz the kurdish area in north of iraq includes oil
and if they would be able to found a own kurdish state
they would get the oil-fields too so they sent soldiers
into noth-iraq-they still got soldiers overthere!

for me it looks like like oil-business and financial interest,influence
was part of first war and it is part of 2nd war as well
although the main interests of 2nd war are different from first
its always both:political and financial interests and who knows whatelse

dear god make china and all other countrys
like north corea ,...
get oil and diamonds and gold and.....
so they get a chance to be free somewhere in nearest future:P

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jetweb(AUT)
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Location: Austria (Vienna)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIGHT NIX !

jet

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Zed
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reason they decided not to try and finish the job at the end of the gulf war was because at the moment, the US government thought that it would do more harm than good. Even though there were tons of support to carry on, there was still alot of support in the middle easten world (leader wise) who backed saddam. And the government thought that the killing/ousting of saddam would cause more harm than good at the time.

It would have affected economics, life in general, countries around iraq, imports/exports, etc.......... And I suppose the negatives outwayed the positives.

The goal of the gulf war was not to liberate Iraq, it was to keep iraq from taking over Saudi Arabia, and to get out of Kuwait. It was to show iraq that they could not just attack a country and get away with it. Well I agree with it being about economics, isn't that what it is always going to end up being about? But I think a lot of other factors play into that, such as the treatment of citizens, humanity, self-interest (whether it be) not bombing US, UK, french, spanish, german citizens, but I think that was the major concern in this war, is the use of long range, lethal weapons on countries that were opposed to Iraq. Don't get me wrong, Iraq does have alot of oil, which is undeniable, but all that oil is buying weapons of mass destruction, and all the money in the world isn't going to bring back those that Saddam kills, so we need to prevent him from using those weapons on anyone in the world.

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