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Zed
UT Noobie
Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 2099
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Location: Berkeley, CA
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
Post more Noob
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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 Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh
I wrote a HUGE post on this, but its fooking 4am (grr) and I don't know if it makes sense (grammar etc) and too tired to look it over till tomorrow.
so for now, I'll just say: I disagree. lol :p.... with much of thread, the premise in particular. So to me, its all kinda moot in many regards for most of it.  more later on that. But basically, I believe there a few KEY inappropriate assumptions made and details lost or not made that would have gone a LONG way to resolving with 1/1000000000 the effort and drama thus far.
You guys (oca) are all decent doods, and much repect to you even if we do have our spats. One issue doesn't have to define a person. I hope everyone is taking that idea to heard. That said, I think you're all WAAY off and zed IS outtaline on this. IMO. more on THAT later.
BUT one KEY point to make here now (briefly, so more later of course  ) is that, imo, you guys, ESPECIaLLY ZED, were just too impatient and made it MUCH worse then it needed to be.
THis whole thing could COMPLETELY been avoided if we kept it offline as I wanted and you guys just waited /hung in there a bit more, as I wanted, till we finished straightning it out. take that as you will. But you do realize on forums, not everyone relevant to an issue is always available on YOUR schedule right?  No one was ignoring you, certainly not me. In fact, its lucky I HAPPENED to be online tonight cause I usualy AM NOT. I am already regetting it. lol
ok......about the pass out.
---G"waaayyyyyyy too tired for this"K
ps. WHAT UP OCA FORUM!!!?? lol
pps. I think you should change the name of this thread at least. but maybe that's just me.
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"I drank what??!" --- Socrates (LOL ) |
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | tsu unnecessary drama....... for ya GK |
lol thanks.
PS. I reread most of my LONG message I was going to post, but I think it was a bit to "emotional" to be productive, but I certainly can/willing/want to discuss it with lee, roba, zed or any oca if you wish via email, ts or msn. (see? cooler heads CAN prevail. heh.)
Let me just say, I am confident I can show conclusively that much of the argument up to here in this thread was pretty "unneccesary" as the thread now says---like "why didn't he just ask Zed to explain? or "why haven't I been unbanned yet?" or "zeds going about his business post" etc etc, which imo are all side-points that are basically irrelevant. If we are to take you at your word and character witnesses, take me at my assertion and belief. Unless....you don't trust ME.
The bottomline from my view:
==>zed didn't cheat. we offer our apologizes for the inconvenience and approach. unban. zed apologize for lashing out (ps. no big thing...just "yah, sorry about that" I was just pissed, didn't really mean it) justified or not.
==>the above is now the best zed should get, since zed didn't NEED to make it worse.....(in the least made it LONGER), which he unequivocally did and pretty much admits and didn't have to do. (BOTH sides have pills to swallow). Things were said.......things got convuluted. That is, it is clear that it is not the IDEAL way for a resolution (ie: I feel like being childish for your wrongful act, so..."well, if your want a REAL reason to ban me....!"
If anyone (thirdparty) thinks this IS the BEST way to go about it, then speak now, so I know who to avoid in the future. lol.
==> we should all just drop it.
==> we should avoid future such discussion of DRAMA or their resolution via FORUM whenever possible (use offline methods)
==> we need to be PATIENT as things dont' work on anyone's schedules in the forum world.
OPEN:
==>Whether Zed was "JUSTIFIED" to react......we can have arguments on both sides whether "childish" reaction to "wrongful" act is justified or not blahblahblah FOREVER if we want. I will go on record saying I think "no". while other will be on the other side. Just add some bad feelings and unclear and/or misunderstood posts along the way.
I am prepared to do this OFFLINE if anyone wants. and as I said, I think most of the accusations, assumptions or conclusions will be satisfactorily resolved and conclusive (though we can still disgrree on how one "feels" about them). But let it be known, it might not be in a timely manner. If it REALLY has to be, I'll be happy to schedule a time. NOTE: korea time is 13 ahead of USA EST right now.
Fact is the only "IF" here is:
===> We WERE working on it, but sometimes BECAUSE THATS WHAT HAPPENS ON FORUMS, it was just takign a little time cause we got to get people and events in order (namely poops). So, IF zed wasn't so impatient and "HAD" to react (because he was or wasn't justified) he woulda gotten the unban and apology straight-up and we all be done with this happily.
===> zed will be unbanned (if not already) when POOPS decides too. We can only suggest or ask poops in the regard. But I don't even know if he's seen this. But as I see, Poops has just as much right to be offended and react with a ban to WHATEVER DEGREE (that is a personal thing and keep in mind he has put hundreds of hours into the board and IS senstive about it understandably) as much as everyone else says Zed has the right to be childish in reaction.
Either way, THEY should be the one's to work it with eachother. Not us. We can MEDIATE if need be, but should not REPRESENT. I am very firm on my opinion of that.
General Comment:
I have no issues with anyone or the way they approached this priort to this thread. So, people should take closing a thread as any deeper meaning of me thinking you were "flaming" (as I state clearly it was only a "preemptive strike against dramaism" lol. *sigh* Though I WILL take offense to BLATANLY offensive remarks agaisnt TSU or me, regardless of they are "in reaction too". (if I do NOT, that is WORSE, as it indicates I disregard the person so systemically that that it isn't even worthwhile to register). This is case-by-case, not a rule. But as most humans would say, when it comes to "being insulted", that may only last for the thread...or longer....depending on the situation.
But I do NOT by default, hold grudges or think a single incident need be representative of the person. As I said, I think everyone here is probably a decent person.....but the fact that sometimes decent people (or even CLOSE friends) are @ssw!pes is life.
Again, in this case, I will state I think that was Zed, much more than the poops or TSU (not that we are without responsibilty), or not that that really necessarily matters. Oh well. People give TONS of leeway for such cases depending on close you are. no? (eg: best friend f@cks up, you are like "dood!! wtf? ya idiot?!" friend: "crap, sorry bro. Totally lamed out" You: "that's right, you ass! btw, you so owe me lunch now!"===>and that's about it)
Though we aren't in reality that close, we should BOTH do so here. No botter, no cheaters---just some egos floating around. I think zed was the @ss here, you think it was one or combination of us. oh freaking well.....
Let's leave it at that and go back to saying "hi", debating how to catch real botters.....and we can have a match to decide who's buying lunch.
--G"yup, that was NOT the long version of my post!!"K
lol
=============
PS. HEY! great idea!! why DONT we have a MATCH!?!  no better to work out some stress and aggression then FRAGGIN!
Loser buys lunch....er......someday. (ok, winner gets the right to keep bugging loser for lunch. haha ) :p
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"I drank what??!" --- Socrates (LOL ) |
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LeeBe
UT Celebrity
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2170
Game Trophies: 2
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: |
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thx for keeping it short GK
there is only one part of the post that I disagree (one of the few parts I understand lol)
| GrendelKhan{TSU} wrote: | Though we aren't in reality that close, we should BOTH do so here. No botter, no cheaters---just some egos floating around. I think zed was the @ss here, you think it was one or combination of us. oh freaking well.....
Let's leave it at that and go back to saying "hi", debating how to catch real botters.....and we can have a match to decide who's buying lunch. |
you might think Zed was the ass here, I would say at first he took it damn well and uh then he kinda made up for it but it worked, he got a response
I think poops was the ass here, deleting someones scores because he thought they were 'fishy' then banning him because of one of his comments, and im sure 'losers' isnt as bad as it couldve been, like I said, I wouldve been a lot harder on y'all.
if he thought they were 'fishy' he couldve asked about them, sent a pm or email and from my understanding they werent even very high above milos scores, so wheres the big deal?
1 question im sure everyone would like to know, since "you never said he was cheating!!"
define what you guys mean about 'fishy' 
Definition
fishy (DISHONEST) [Show phonetics]
adjective INFORMAL
seeming dishonest or false:
There's something fishy going on here.
(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
so how can you be dishonest in a flash game without cheating 
this reminds me of a book.
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
Post more Noob
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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dood...this is exactly why I keep saying NOT to continue this via forum. but I suppose I must play the cards I dealt.
| Quote: | | I think poops was the ass here |
like I said, that is perogative and we are at an impass then....so DROP IT. We obviously aren't convincing eachother of anything.
But to give some notions of what I mean by---INCORRECT PREMISE:
--um..I do NOT agree with the notion that we should have notified zed and asked him. THAT's just stupid, imo. might as well ask a botter if he was cheating. Calling to our feelings and knowledge of zeds character is fairly silly as well. Our relationship has been uneasy, if respectful, truce at best.
--I cannot speak for milo, but I never claimed that we didnt' say he was cheating. That, in fact, was exactly what I DID say in the orginal tsu thread "but the score erase came from apparently cheating in the games" (and your posts follow were why we were looking into). So take your contradictions and your reminded PICs elsewhere...they are not relevant.
-- | Quote: | | uh then he kinda made up for it. |
like I implied but will now say, "made up for it" is the part that I completely ERASES any claims restitution for wrongdoing in this case, imo. As I believe...if reversed...YOU would be as well!
Its a RIDICULOUS argument for justifying bad behavior anyway. And basically, just annoys the crap outta me---because it IS so childish and flat out lame. I COMPLETELY, systematically and categorically disagree with that approach for JUSTIFYING whatever one wants to say---which is what it is. Might as well just point fingers at us and cry "You started it!!", so FU!
What I don't get is how some people seem to think "reacting" with a double-fold lashing out (and in an ADMITTEDLY childish manner) is somehow "standing up" for oneself and relieves them all responsibility for their words or actions. I don't get this. I stopped believe that when I was 13.
I am reminded of some other books: "Diplomacy, Common Sense and How-to-actually-get-what-you-want for DUMMIES" book? Or perhaps, a "Dummies Guide to Critical Thinking and Arguments". or the "How to not ACT like a child, then get mad when treated like one for Dummies" book? There are others in that section of the bookstore, but those are just samples.
Best part is those are Best Sellers (not just for admin techie geeks!)
On the otherhand, I believe that how one reacts and handles to things not to their liking, go there way immediately (no! on MY time! ), or "wrongs" onto them are just as much, if not MORE a mark of one's character and integrity then the mistakes in the first place---which were acknowledged and being handled. But again, I suppose that is just me.
That is my official position on such things claims for "human nature" and I-"choose"-to-be-childish arguments---always was (well post-13 years old) and will be.
| Quote: | | I wouldve been a lot harder on y'all. |
And you would have been thusly banned as well, with less controversy. see above.
btw, just cause you would have been WORSE is not an argument for justifying someones actoins. I don't get that. A likewise argument from ME is thus: I would have BETTER. So where does THAT put your argument? And I'd BET real money, I woulda ended up better for it with less drama as well. Again, maybe that's just me.
AGAIN....
| Quote: | ==>Whether Zed was "JUSTIFIED" to react......we can have arguments on both sides whether "childish" reaction to "wrongful" act is justified or not blahblahblah FOREVER if we want. I will go on record saying I think "no". while others will be on the other side. Just add some bad feelings and unclear and/or misunderstood posts along the way.
I am prepared to do this OFFLINE if anyone wants. and as I said, I think most of the accusations, assumptions or conclusions will be satisfactorily resolved and conclusive (though we can still disgrree on how one "feels" about them). But let it be known, it might not be in a timely manner. If it REALLY has to be, I'll be happy to schedule a time. NOTE: korea time is 13 ahead of USA EST right now.
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ALSO to reiterate, I think no one is giving poops enough credit for the context he was in when this happened. Its wasn't a big deal and he has a CRAP load of other stuff to deal with. I doubt this was high on his radar frankly. Coulda shoulda woulda....whatever. You even said you AGREE that you guys (zed) just jumped the gun and would have been resolved drama-free if you had just chilled a little longer. and again. he didn't NEED to go off...and that very clearly is where RESOLUTIONS went awry.
Thats the end of it.....zed and poops can work out the details. repeat: | Quote: | | Either way, THEY should be the one's to work it with eachother. Not us. We can MEDIATE if need be, but should not REPRESENT. I am very firm on my opinion of that. |
These are just some points as to why I say this thread is WAY off. We need to stop harboring on irrelevant points. And AGAIN, this is exactly why I keep saying NOT to continue this via forum. LET IT GO and handled by poops and zed.
if you want to talk to me....END THIS NOW. Hit me up email with a time we can talk via TS or phone.
I can get you a "How to use TS for Dummies" boook if you want.
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"I drank what??!" --- Socrates (LOL ) |
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
Post more Noob
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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oh
PS. when you disagreed....were you disagreeing that we should go back to just playing and should have a match?? 
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"I drank what??!" --- Socrates (LOL ) |
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Zed
UT Noobie
Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 2099
Game Trophies: 2
Location: Berkeley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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nice "short" post.
Hey like you said, I'm the ass in your opinion, maybe in a few peoples opinions, you (well not you GK) but the "other party" is the ass in my opinion. I see it that way, because well frankly, this would have never even happened had the first shot not been fired, nor the second, nor the third, really.........
I just fired back with the fourth and fifth lol.
| Quote: | erased my scores in the arcade. Guess they didnt like me winning or something
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| Quote: | haha this is funny.
{OCA}ZED, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
hey don't worry about it, it's not a big deal, i think it's pretty funny considering the only thing i did was play a few games, get a few high scores, didn't even post in their forum, so there was no way i could offend anyone. and i get banned? what a crock lol. |
GK says:
| Quote: | | er...dont' know about the ban (just from the arcade, I'd think?), but the score erase came from apparently cheating in the games. |
| Quote: | haha, wow I didn't know you could accuse someone of cheating at a flash game, that's funny. Lol and banned from their whole message board for playing in the arcade, that's a first I'm sure.
Oh well whatever....... that's pretty stupid lol. |
| Quote: | nah i dont think so, because I was on there the other day playing that albatross game and got 2nd i think, then I left, came back yesterday and all my scores were gone.
So I went in and played one game of tetris and beat milo's score, not some extraordinary score like i had before, but something like 200k, and then i was banned lol. |
Then Milo says: | Quote: | You were banned not for having high score or beating me at some silly arcarde game or just for the fun of it ... but you added a comment with that last game you played:
Quote:
why not erased all my other scores, losers...
or something like that.
thats why you got banned You were banned not for having high score or beating me at some silly arcarde game or just for the fun of it ... but you added a comment with that last game you played:
Quote:
why not erased all my other scores, losers...
or something like that.
thats why you got banned |
Alright we can all read the chain of events, but here is the jist from my view up to that point.
Deleted, fine whatever right.
Banned, I was even fine with that.
Being accused of cheating.... not so fine with that, but just shruged it off, because I know I didnt.
Being banned for saying "loser"........thought it was a little much but still said whatever.
Then being fed, well things looked fishy, but of course we aren't saying you cheated, but ya know we deleted them anyways. The action of deleting them seems to flow more towards "cheat" and that I didn't feel like putting up with. Call it what you will, fishy/cheat, whatever. Once you take the step over from fishy and inquiring and wondering... To fishy and banning, that sorta says, we believe you cheated and we're doing something about it. I took it as slander and quite frankly didn't think I needed to take that. I mean think about things for a second as an outsider. (place name here) has played UT for a (x months/years), trying to do good, keep up a good name, most of the time, and someone goes out and says you cheated... err were fishy in a flash game, albeit in a public forum, and now I'm sure eyebrows are raised at your character, no? You might be a little ticked.
Just my two cents though. Was I childish in my "OVER THE TOP" reaction? Probably, but I told you that in my post anyways, I wasn't fooling anyone.
I knew what I was doing and why. I was making my ban worthwhile and apparently I did a good job. Oh well boys will be boys right.........
I'm not going to apologize for my words or actions here, only because I haven't heard from the party that supposedly banned me. ALl my other words and actions do I justify them, nah.........But I don't take them back either, everyone knows what has been said, what's done is done.
Do I apologize for saying "lloser" in my comment. NO definetly not, because I really don't feel like it was that bad, I mean I played there on/off for a few weeks, didn't talk trash, didn't post bad comments, nothing, and to one day come back and they were all gone.
I mean comeon... gimme a break, i mean really. If I were some complete stranger to your clan, then fine ban me, but it's not like I had never talked to any of you, and to come back to the boards banned, well ya know how the story goes.
If poops wants to leave me banned, that is his decision, am I going to fight for my unbanning. Nope, I'll just go elsewhere when I want to play tetris, no big deal.
| Quote: | | Let's leave it at that and go back to saying "hi" |
==>zed didn't cheat. we offer our apologizes for the inconvenience and approach. Apology accepted from you.
I apologize for lashing out too....( I was just pissed, didn't really mean it) justified or not. Now realize I said yes I do apologize for lashing out, but i don't take back the things I said, I hope everyone can recognize that difference. It's not that I care or don't care, it's just that I haven't heard from the one party that really matters, so I'm not going to 100% apologize on just an assumption. But to all of the other parties I lashed out at and who have chimed in their two cents, you do have my apologies.
Alright I'm off this issue.
Edit: just read GK's post, guess we were typing at the same time.
| Quote: | What I don't get is how some people seem to think "reacting" with a double-fold lashing out (and in an ADMITTEDLY childish manner) is somehow "standing up" for oneself and relieves them all responsibility for their words or actions.
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I don't believe this, nor did I believe this when I posted. I didn't think that lashing out was standing up for myself or relieving me of responsibility, I thought lashing out was, and admittedly yes, being childish, but for whatever reason I felt like doing that at the time. Oh freakin well....
if need be and if I or He (poops) feels like dealing with this, then well, we will at that time. Until then this case is closed.
Chime in and post what you like, we don't edit posts or delete them for others, we let the originator do that for themselves. So there ya go, whether a forum is the best way to communicate, well that is another discussion, but it's a means and everyone uses it, so maybe it really isn't the medium that needs to be changed. Maybe it's just the way people use the medium.............
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Last edited by Zed on Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wayzor
slow player *cough*wayz*cough*
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 781
Game Trophies: 3
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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GK.
Am I the third party you refered to earlier? Or was it Flak you refered to from the thread on your forum?
Just wondered cause I think we were the only two!
If you were refering to me, what were you saying? I didn't understand it
P.S. keep it short, and in plain english........I had to take English twice before I passed 
EDIT:
Ah I just read your edit ZED............ | ZED wrote: | | if need be and if I or He (poops) feels like dealing with this, then well, we will at that time. Until then this case is closed. |
I'm not into dragging any thing out, so forget it GK, no real need to respond to this post!
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
Post more Noob
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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we need to drop the "fishy" thing. I said, that that was part of the "irrelevant and incorrect premise". It WAS cause you were thought to have cheated, which I state clearly in teh original thread. The fact, that milo said she never said it flatly, is true, but also not relevant.
| Quote: | What I don't get is how some people seem to think "reacting" with a double-fold lashing out (and in an ADMITTEDLY childish manner) is somehow "standing up" for oneself and relieves them all responsibility for their words or actions.
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| Quote: | | I don't believe this, nor did I believe this when I posted. I didn't think that lashing out was standing up for myself or relieving me of responsibility, I thought lashing out was, and admittedly yes, being childish, but for whatever reason I felt like doing that at the time. Oh freakin well.... |
Fair enough, so let me rephrase (and I wasn't necessarily talking only to you  ). I just dont' buy CHOOSING, admitting or whatever reacting in a childish manner as an excuse, nor justification for pardon, nor whatever for being childish. That is, I myself cannot relate or justify that reaction for anyting other then wanting to be TREATED like child, which in this case, had a RETROSPECTIVE effect on yourself AND others. And that selfish as well.
Worst of all, because as YOU keep saying, it was a CHOICE.
And it IS a way to get outta-jail-account-free imo cause it redirects blame and perception. Perhaps you weren't that pre-conceiving at the time, I'll give you that, but that is the RESULT and how it LOOKS.....or in THE LEAST, its poor judgment and childishness is undeniably (not "probably", but undeniably) COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE. (also, "knowing you" again, doesn't factor in for me, probably not poops, or many others, so doesn't work for me).
I really just can't relate. I guess that's really my issue with this. I just dont' see why people gotta be pissy knowing its just going to make things worse. Again, that's not just childish, its flat out SELFISH, as the action effects others. I REALLY cannot abide by selfish acts like that. Sorry, zed. But come on yourself. What's the point of that?
Huh, I guess that's another big underlying reason I think it was an @ss move, (I'll rephrase from "you are...") is the fact that is WAS A CHOICE, as you say, and very SELFISH, as it HAS effected others (and which again is specific to this context, not your overall character---hopefully lol ) :p)
This, as opposed to poops' banning action---Poops often reacts and acts and moves on. Given all the crap that goes on and he deals with its not surprising. And I have YET to hear an empathy for that. I'm sure he'll come forward or you will talk with him and that'll be clear at that point (still advocating YOU guys deal with it, and we just mediate if need be).
But again, this is not about TIMESCHEDULE, so don't base that on one. Its not thing I'd go email him just to let him know to talk to you either---that I believe is up to you guys.
But fact is, poops doesn't/didn't CHOOSE to lash out at you with anything personal after the fact. Someone suspected you of cheating, he went with it, so erased your score. Then got pissed at you reaction (maybe it was a bad day) and banned you. Once in doghouse, why PROVOKE? (Again, I don't relate) that's just stupid. The only even IMPLIED "slander" you could possibly construe was brought by all other parties, including me I suppose. But that was the point of TAKING IT OFFLINE and saying publically that it was being reviewed. as I have stated repeatedly.
I mean "come on, really!" (again your words).....lashingout childishly by choice? (btw, apology appreciated and accepted  ) Certainly, its NOT something one NEEDS to choose....boys will be boys or not. So if one CHOOSES to be childish, then why are others expected not to treat one like a child. ie: disregard their claims.
Again, I just can't relate because that's just not how I operate, or how I think OTHERS should, or believe is RIGHT too, as you say, ESPECIALLY for something that isn't a big deal and in the end a simple mistake, was compounded by admittedly childish responses and selfish behavior follwing. YOU said, "f@ck it" but that didn't seem to be anyone ELSES intentions. No REAL biggy, as again, its probabaly (hopefully) just this instance, but come on yourself. How hard is it REALLY to just be civil???
(again, "could have been worse" doesn't hold water, cause it certainly, "could have been better").
We are just different that way I suppose (on this) .
So, er, no word on a match? A forgive-and-forget frag one?
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"I drank what??!" --- Socrates (LOL ) |
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LeeBe
UT Celebrity
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2170
Game Trophies: 2
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| GrendelKhan{TSU} wrote: | dood...this is exactly why I keep saying NOT to continue this via forum. but I suppose I must play the cards I dealt.
| Quote: | | I think poops was the ass here |
like I said, that is perogative and we are at an impass then....so DROP IT. We obviously aren't convincing eachother of anything. |
hah you know GK, I replied to you because of this bit.
| Quote: | | I think zed was the @ss here |
| Quote: | | Let's leave it at that and go back to saying "hi" |
good way of saying, 'we were right, you were wrong, now lets drop it '
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I wouldve been a lot harder on y'all. |
And you would have been thusly banned as well, with less controversy. see above. |
maybe, maybe not. I wouldve done things differently anyway, I first wouldve posted something in the forum like, 'hey all my scores have gone! is there a bug?'
and when I read, 'no, they were deleted because you cheated!'
Thats when I wouldve let you have it! and I believe it would've been justified.
| Quote: | | ALSO to reiterate, I think no one is giving poops enough credit for the context he was in when this happened. Its wasn't a big deal |
If it wasnt a big deal then he sure was quick to ban someone for it
| Quote: | Thats the end of it.....zed and poops can work out the details. repeat: | Quote: | | Either way, THEY should be the one's to work it with eachother. Not us. We can MEDIATE if need be, but should not REPRESENT. I am very firm on my opinion of that. |
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for someone who is not 'Representing' you sure do 'mediate' a lot.
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| OCA ZED wrote: | | everyone uses it, so maybe it really isn't the medium that needs to be changed. Maybe it's just the way people use the medium............. |
er...everyone uses ts, phones and email too.
I don't think we need to change how forums work, just when we choose to use them. We TRY to live and learn (from our mistakes). But the "learn" part seems to fall through the cracks too often.
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LeeBe
UT Celebrity
Joined: 28 Apr 2002
Posts: 2170
Game Trophies: 2
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GrendelKhan{TSU} wrote: | | Again, that's not just childish, its flat out SELFISH, as the action effects others. I REALLY cannot abide by selfish acts like that. Sorry, zed. But come on yourself. What's the point of that? |
you dont think its selfish that TSU deleted the scores that beat theirs?
you dont think it was selfish to ban Zed from even making a post about it in your forums?
you dont think it was selfish to imply he was cheating then lock the thread?
seems you can abide by it if its in your favour
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Zed
UT Noobie
Joined: 14 Apr 2002
Posts: 2099
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Location: Berkeley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | No REAL biggy, as again, its probabaly (hopefully) just this instance, but come on yourself. How hard is it REALLY to just be civil???
(again, "could have been worse" doesn't hold water, cause it certainly, "could have been better").
We are just different that way I suppose (on this) . |
Alright fair enough, but see the difference is, I totally knew what I was doing and was pretty positive I would get some kind of reaction, the reaction I expected? who knows.........I wasn't really expecting anything in particular.
But the one thing I don't think you get is this..... Yeah it isn't really my personality to lash out in order to fix a problem, but I wasn't trying to fix anything TBH. At the time I figured this "a decision had been made, the judge, jury, and execution had been predetermined" So I figured I would just get up on my soapbox and raise a little hell. And i want you to know this was after Milo came and gave me all the excuses. Before that, I was just dealing with it, and calmy IMO, go read the first posts.......
. | Quote: | | I really just can't relate. I guess that's really my issue with this. I just dont' see why people gotta be pissy knowing its just going to make things worse. Again, that's not just childish, its flat out SELFISH, as the action effects others. I REALLY cannot abide by selfish acts like that. Sorry, zed. But come on yourself. What's the point of that? |
You answered your own question.... The point was to make things worse and get everyone a little riled up. Again: " I figured I would just get up on my soapbox and raise a little hell. "
Yeah maybe not the best way or even right way, but it was the way at the time.
My whole premise was I didn't pull the trigger, it was self defense, and in a court of law justified. Or let alone slander, I mean come on how selfish is it to put up a judgement and not even let the defendant respond?
Albeit this isn't a traditional court, and of course the way I see it the TSU laws are always gonna favor TSU, that's just how things are. You can commit slander and even murder, but somehow it's ok, because one of your own did it.
| Quote: | | This, as opposed to poops' banning action---Poops often reacts and acts and moves on. Given all the crap that goes on and he deals with its not surprising. And I have YET to hear an empathy for that. I'm sure he'll come forward or you will talk with him and that'll be clear at that |
So yet poops actions can be justified because he goes through alot of crap and just moves on?
Seems that is just as selfish as being childish, no? Just because someone uses actions and no words doesn't make him/her anymore right. Poops actions reflected alot when he is just going to go on a hunch, assume, then act out of him "selfishness" and ban me. I mean is it not selfish that he assumed that was directed at him and decided to go ahead and ban me for no reason other than that?
I mean someone lashes out, childishly, and they are selfish, yet someone goes through alot of crap and just moves on, is totally ok. Sorry GK, I'm not seeing the reasoning behind that one.
| Quote: | | But fact is, poops doesn't/didn't CHOOSE to lash out at you with anything personal after the fact. Someone suspected you of cheating, he went with it, so erased your score. Then got pissed at you reaction (maybe it was a bad day) and banned you. Once in doghouse, why PROVOKE? (Again, I don't relate) that's just stupid. |
This is exactly the problem though, how was I suppose to know these things? I was I suppose to know it got erased by poops, how was I suppose to know someone suspected me of cheating? Can't know you're in the doghouse if no one tells you. Correct?
Anyways like I said, I haven't heard from poops, so I can only take your words for your words GK, not your words for Clan TSU, or your words for poops. Only you for you, and I am straight with you. Might not agree, but we can agree to disagree for now.
| Quote: | | er...everyone uses ts, phones and email too. |
Those don't always work either.
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LeeBe wrote: | | GrendelKhan{TSU} wrote: | | Again, that's not just childish, its flat out SELFISH, as the action effects others. I REALLY cannot abide by selfish acts like that. Sorry, zed. But come on yourself. What's the point of that? |
you dont think its selfish that TSU deleted the scores that beat theirs?
you dont think it was selfish to ban Zed from even making a post about it in your forums?
you dont think it was selfish to imply he was cheating then lock the thread?
seems you can abide by it if its in your favour |
quite simply: no. not at all. I disagree categorically.
....especially the first one, cause that's stupid. MOST of the top scores are not TSUs.
....and the last one, cause I didn't imply. I said it, and then SAID it was "in appeal" and looked into more and gave MANY channels for recourse. And said all evidence and conclusions would be posted.
...and the middle one, but that takes more explanation so...
If you want more explanation....then hit me as I have been asking.
ts, phone and email. (which aren't dont always work either...but we haven't even tried, and its certainly a step up in terms of amount able to be communicated.)
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GrendelKhan{TSU}
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Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Location: Boston and S. Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But the one thing I don't think you get is this..... Yeah it isn't really my personality to lash out in order to fix a problem, but I wasn't trying to fix anything TBH. At the time I figured this "a decision had been made, the judge, jury, and execution had been predetermined" So I figured I would just get up on my soapbox and raise a little hell. And i want you to know this was after Milo came and gave me all the excuses. Before that, I was just dealing with it, and calmy IMO, go read the first posts....... |
I hear that. But you figured wrong. Illustrating yet again, that its still true that if you all had chilled a bit longer it woulda worked itself out. You choice of medium is forum (don't know why but)....so you should inherently know how to be patient with it.
| Quote: | | Yeah maybe not the best way or even right way, but it was the way at the time. |
You keep saying "MAYBE" and that's where we keep disagreeing. Also, it was not THE way....it was A way. It was YOUR way. And as I keep saying.....a bad one, imo.
| Quote: | | My whole premise was I didn't pull the trigger, it was self defense, and in a court of law justified. Or let alone slander, I mean come on how selfish is it to put up a judgement and not even let the defendant respond? |
again, I repeat: I disagree with the premise. its not self-defense as you weren't attacked. no really. your weren't. Just under investigation. And slander isn't even technically correct, much less applicable (it'd be "LIBLE"). Holding the analogy, arresting someone is NOT slander or lible. Neither is accusing someone. There WAS reason. It was NOT random or ego (why you then?). in fact, you can be incarcerated without a conviction---on self-defense, or slander or whatever (all of which are not applicable). But you TRY TO BREAK OUT or SHIV SOMEONE while in jail or while your case is still in deliberation with the jury or about to be going to trial: You WILL go to jail FOR THAT, if not the the original charges that you would have been acquitted for if left on its own.
That's my version of your analogy. Court would eat your alive with that argument. Even a nonTSU one. lol
| Quote: | | You can commit slander and even murder, but somehow it's ok, because one of your own did it. |
I don't agree with that at all. In any case, I never said poops was right to ban you. And apolgizes if your were in fact wrongly accused of cheating--which you didn't. How is that getting away with anything?
The only one who is getting away with something is you STILL thinking its ok to soapbox on the ASSUMPTION that judge, jury and execution was over., despite what we SAID (working on straightening it out).
| Quote: | | So yet poops actions can be justified because he goes through alot of crap and just moves on? |
again, I wasn't justifying anything. I was calling on understanding of the context--which was trying to show you was reasonable. There are many other nuances to it that I didnt' post, but are existent (again, PHONE or TS!!). Thus via empathy and understand of the "initial" happening you could conceivalby lessen the feeling of being really wronged in the first place. (not the action, but the context and other stuff surrounding it).
But again, I did a poor job at explaning it. Just know that's not the full picture---its not that petty or contrived.
| Quote: | | Seems that is just as selfish as being childish, no? |
no.
Based on your and leebee's response I am even more sure that I wasn't clear about poops' context. My description is insufficient via post. hit me up via TS and I can give a better account that will clear it up. My point is it wasn't targeted and just an minor event. It only got "major" when you get snippy and this started here. Otherwise, it woulda been....minding your business and notice you are UNbanned and have an aplogy for losing your scores.
So, no it wasn't selfish or childish. Certainly not in the same way because there was malice. Just board economics.
Point is moot anyway, cause I said, I not trying to justffy poop's actions for the score erasing. They were NOT random, nor targeted. That's the point.
| Quote: | | This is exactly the problem though, how was I suppose to know these things? I was I suppose to know it got erased by poops, how was I suppose to know someone suspected me of cheating? Can't know you're in the doghouse if no one tells you. Correct? |
Um....when something random happens like getting banned....I don't have to be a detective to know something is up. Its happened to me in fact. I emailed admin and asked if that was a mistake or something was up, and they said sorry just an error and it was over. Took a week but that was it. I ddin't say, "HEY I was minding my own business losers! noob admins!"
A mild response by leebee's standards and justifiable, apparently, but STILL one I would and didn't make.
Anyway, I did tell you or your clanmates. and they replied, and that's why we went under discussion to review it in case we were wrong. I don't see the problem there either.
| Quote: | | Only you for you, and I am straight with you. Might not agree, but we can agree to disagree for now. |
I'm fine with you too and ok to agree to disagree. But if you take my word....(as we are supposed to have given you a benefit of the doubt as well) then take my word that this doesn't need to be a big deal for ANYONE and its more than it needs to be.
Furhter, goks posted poops email. You can use it too you know.
But that's not my bag.
| Quote: | | Those don't always work either. |
never know, if you don't try.
either way....
STILL no word on a match? if its no, that cool. But yall keep skippin the offer!
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